Introduction
My wife and I just purchased a 2014 28' International Serenity, and we pick it up next week. We're excited! However, the electrical system as is doesn't fit our needs -- especially my needs as a paid technonerd and engineer.
Our new International has the factory installed 1000W inverter, and two stock lead acid batteries, as well as 50a service. The inverter is probably going to be the first thing to go -- I was primarily interested in it as a way to get two separate circuits or more plugs; the amount of plugs available just about doubles.
I've been doing a lot of research and thinking about the electrical and power system, with an eye towards boondocking quite a bit. If any forum members are somewhere in the Georgia or Florida area and are electrically inclined, or have a recommendation of who to work with, I'd be happy to have the system professionally done. I've sketched out the following major systems, and would appreciate feedback.
So, addressing them in order ...
Solar
Obviously, solar would make boon docking a whole lot easier; it would be a huge plus if I can go without running a generator.
After reading much of this sub forum, the two major contenders in my mind are:
I am having a hard time finding any information on the roof layout of the 28' International Serenity. I did take a few pictures by standing on the bumper, with my iPhone held up. One complicating factor as far as the roof line and placement is that we have a second AC unit.
Left side of the airstream, right side is pretty similar.
http://ift.tt/1ooNeH3
Layout wise, there appears to be room to the left and right of the bedroom AC unit, and perhaps room forward of the vents, next to the front bedroom AC. Does anyone have any experience with the 2014 28' Internationals, and the roof layout?
As Twinkie is not a vintage Airstream, I think I could put panels that are a bit more than two feet wide on each side, such as the GO160 -- which is 26" wide, and 58" long. Failing that, I could use GS100's -- which are 20.75" wide, and 40" long.
I am quite tempted by the Go Power flexible panels -- due to the aerodynamic profile, and the lack of visibility on the roofline -- I am aware of the potential for heat issues with the lack of circulation so that makes me hesitate. With that being said, I could put GP-FLEX-100's on -- which are 21.3" wide and 41.7" long -- very close to GS100's. The huge advantage for me is that they are much much lighter than the traditional panels -- an important consideration as I have a half ton truck and a relatively high tongue weight.
I am interested in squeezing as many watts out of a solar system as feasible given the roofline -- how many panels do you all think I can put up there sensibly?
It appears that either way, I'd use a SunRunner MPPT core or the 30A PWM core that comes with the Go Power kits. I think that also depends on what I end up with for the rest of the system.
Battery Bank
The Twinkie comes with two lead acid cells, apparently in the 75 ah range. Completely insufficient, and they will have to be replaced with AGMs at the very least to best leverage a solar system.
The current best practice is to use AGM batteries. As Twinkie is a rear bedroom model, putting a large GPL-8DL under the bed is impractical -- I'd have to run a lot of wiring up from the back towards the front where the electrical system is.
It appears that I can use the under the couch storage -- there is an easily accessible part. There is also an under-couch compartment to the left that contains the 1000W inverter. I can also use the battery compartment that contains the lead acid batteries.
Dimensions are:
If I use LifeLine AGM batteries, it appears that I could replace the battery box lead acids with GPL-24T's which have the following dimensions:
It may be a tight squeeze, though. This would give me 160 AH, 80 AH effective at 50%.
Or I could go with an entire bank of GPL-31XT's under the lounge:
I could lay four of them in a row with dimensions of:
This would give me an estimated 600 amps, 300 amps with half cycle from the couch. However, this is 280lbs of batteries under the lounge, which is pretty concerning as to the potential impact on tongue weight.
So, I was thinking about lithium batteries -- apparently some RV'ers have had good luck with them, and they've been in use in the marine community. They're pricey, but the math does work out for them Cost Analysis of Lithium Ion Battery Systems for RVs | Technomadia
One vendor appears to be Lithionics BatteryLithionics -- there's a 200 amp hour model, which has the following weight and dimensions:
Four of these laid out in a 2x2 under the lounge would give me about 800 amp hours -- and 600 amp hours, at assumed 80% cycle -- for the same amount of weight as six GPL-31XT's. It's very costly, though.
I can go cheaper and even more custom if I wanted to go the route that the Technonomads, and hand-build my own battery bank. Apparently there are interesting issues with getting a charger that understands or works well with lithium batteries, however. I'd appreciate thoughts on this, as I am unsure if anyone else in the Airstream community has installed a Lithium battery bank.
Inverter
Reading through the forums, I found a pretty neat idea - there are inverters that can boost the output of a generator if needed. The idea is that if I get one of these inverters, I can carry a single Honda 2000i to run a single air conditioning unit as needed -- with the inverter providing the boost to start the air conditioner. And with the faster charge rate of the lithium ion's -- it makes it possible to charge the entire battery bank in a matter of a couple of hours -- which means less fuel in the end.
There are 3000W quality inverter/chargers -- but I am not sure how they'd interact with MPPT solar units or lithium ion batteries. I'd love to have one that supports boost. Any suggestions in this area?
Generator
I've already stated that I'd like to keep to one Honda 2000i. Do these Hondas support remote start?
Thank you all for taking the time to read my long-winded post! Whew.
My wife and I just purchased a 2014 28' International Serenity, and we pick it up next week. We're excited! However, the electrical system as is doesn't fit our needs -- especially my needs as a paid technonerd and engineer.
Our new International has the factory installed 1000W inverter, and two stock lead acid batteries, as well as 50a service. The inverter is probably going to be the first thing to go -- I was primarily interested in it as a way to get two separate circuits or more plugs; the amount of plugs available just about doubles.
I've been doing a lot of research and thinking about the electrical and power system, with an eye towards boondocking quite a bit. If any forum members are somewhere in the Georgia or Florida area and are electrically inclined, or have a recommendation of who to work with, I'd be happy to have the system professionally done. I've sketched out the following major systems, and would appreciate feedback.
- Solar
- Battery Bank
- Inverter
- Generator
So, addressing them in order ...
Solar
Obviously, solar would make boon docking a whole lot easier; it would be a huge plus if I can go without running a generator.
After reading much of this sub forum, the two major contenders in my mind are:
- * Solar Kit from AM Solar -- Solar Panel Kits with Mounts, Roof Wire Harness, and Accessories
* Go Power Flexible Solar -- Solar Flex Kits and Modules (Flat, bendable) | GPElectric
I am having a hard time finding any information on the roof layout of the 28' International Serenity. I did take a few pictures by standing on the bumper, with my iPhone held up. One complicating factor as far as the roof line and placement is that we have a second AC unit.
Left side of the airstream, right side is pretty similar.
http://ift.tt/1ooNeH3
Layout wise, there appears to be room to the left and right of the bedroom AC unit, and perhaps room forward of the vents, next to the front bedroom AC. Does anyone have any experience with the 2014 28' Internationals, and the roof layout?
As Twinkie is not a vintage Airstream, I think I could put panels that are a bit more than two feet wide on each side, such as the GO160 -- which is 26" wide, and 58" long. Failing that, I could use GS100's -- which are 20.75" wide, and 40" long.
I am quite tempted by the Go Power flexible panels -- due to the aerodynamic profile, and the lack of visibility on the roofline -- I am aware of the potential for heat issues with the lack of circulation so that makes me hesitate. With that being said, I could put GP-FLEX-100's on -- which are 21.3" wide and 41.7" long -- very close to GS100's. The huge advantage for me is that they are much much lighter than the traditional panels -- an important consideration as I have a half ton truck and a relatively high tongue weight.
I am interested in squeezing as many watts out of a solar system as feasible given the roofline -- how many panels do you all think I can put up there sensibly?
It appears that either way, I'd use a SunRunner MPPT core or the 30A PWM core that comes with the Go Power kits. I think that also depends on what I end up with for the rest of the system.
Battery Bank
The Twinkie comes with two lead acid cells, apparently in the 75 ah range. Completely insufficient, and they will have to be replaced with AGMs at the very least to best leverage a solar system.
The current best practice is to use AGM batteries. As Twinkie is a rear bedroom model, putting a large GPL-8DL under the bed is impractical -- I'd have to run a lot of wiring up from the back towards the front where the electrical system is.
It appears that I can use the under the couch storage -- there is an easily accessible part. There is also an under-couch compartment to the left that contains the 1000W inverter. I can also use the battery compartment that contains the lead acid batteries.
Dimensions are:
- Under Lounge Front (54"w, 12"h, 12"d)
- Lounge Inverter Compartment (offset from inverter, 16"w, 12"h, 14"d, opening is 16"x8")
- Battery Box (15"w, 12"d, 10" high)
If I use LifeLine AGM batteries, it appears that I could replace the battery box lead acids with GPL-24T's which have the following dimensions:
- GPL-24T (7", 6.6", 9.2")
It may be a tight squeeze, though. This would give me 160 AH, 80 AH effective at 50%.
Or I could go with an entire bank of GPL-31XT's under the lounge:
- GPL-31XT (12.9", 6.75", 9.27")
I could lay four of them in a row with dimensions of:
- 4x GPL-31XT's (51.6" wide, 6.75" deep, 9.27" high)
This would give me an estimated 600 amps, 300 amps with half cycle from the couch. However, this is 280lbs of batteries under the lounge, which is pretty concerning as to the potential impact on tongue weight.
So, I was thinking about lithium batteries -- apparently some RV'ers have had good luck with them, and they've been in use in the marine community. They're pricey, but the math does work out for them Cost Analysis of Lithium Ion Battery Systems for RVs | Technomadia
One vendor appears to be Lithionics BatteryLithionics -- there's a 200 amp hour model, which has the following weight and dimensions:
- Lithionics BDI12114 (14.7"l, 8.25"w, 11"h, 57.2lbs)
Four of these laid out in a 2x2 under the lounge would give me about 800 amp hours -- and 600 amp hours, at assumed 80% cycle -- for the same amount of weight as six GPL-31XT's. It's very costly, though.
I can go cheaper and even more custom if I wanted to go the route that the Technonomads, and hand-build my own battery bank. Apparently there are interesting issues with getting a charger that understands or works well with lithium batteries, however. I'd appreciate thoughts on this, as I am unsure if anyone else in the Airstream community has installed a Lithium battery bank.
Inverter
Reading through the forums, I found a pretty neat idea - there are inverters that can boost the output of a generator if needed. The idea is that if I get one of these inverters, I can carry a single Honda 2000i to run a single air conditioning unit as needed -- with the inverter providing the boost to start the air conditioner. And with the faster charge rate of the lithium ion's -- it makes it possible to charge the entire battery bank in a matter of a couple of hours -- which means less fuel in the end.
There are 3000W quality inverter/chargers -- but I am not sure how they'd interact with MPPT solar units or lithium ion batteries. I'd love to have one that supports boost. Any suggestions in this area?
Generator
I've already stated that I'd like to keep to one Honda 2000i. Do these Hondas support remote start?
Thank you all for taking the time to read my long-winded post! Whew.
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